other board

[Sammy]

Is ncffb officially down?

[Fly Guy Dave]

I was there earlier today, so this is a relatively recent development.

--F.G. Dave

[NCL]

It was OK yesterday morning, now there is a message now about exceeding bandwidth.

[JohnS]

I don't know how the NCFFB could exceed bandwidth........hardly anyone ever posts there. I wonder if the migration of the keeper of the board east is the cause. In its heyday, it was the place to be.

[KJE]

"In its heyday, it was the place to be."

You can say that again. At one time it was the coolest board I'd come across, and I still mine the archives for info. The format shift was what killed it, at least in my opinion.

[Sammy]

I agree with KJE. Change in format killed it. Simplicity was key

It will always hold a special place in my internet heart. First place I looked into when i began fly fishing. A 50 comment thread was a daily occurance, with attitude.

[Reno Flytyer]

My brother Stan and I had a great time pullin' legs over there. The "Ask Sarge" thread was a hoot & the various characters were a riot. I be missin' it!!
Wayne Kerr

[pgw]

My brother Stan and I had a great time pullin' legs over there. The "Ask Sarge" thread was a hoot & the various characters were a riot. I be missin' it!!
Wayne Kerr

Sgt Diaz was a great source of information on the NCFFB about river closings and incleased levels of the toxic substance, dihydo-oxide.

Paul

[loose_shoes]

KJE and Sammy are right. The format change of the website destroyed it, IMO. It was too difficult to follow threads and the activity level dropped off almost instantly.

Isn't it funny how one change like that can so quickly suck the life out of something so dynamic?

When it ain't broke...

[Bill Kiene semi-retired]

They had some fantastic fish outs...............wish I could have made some of them.

[pgw]

They had some fantastic fish outs...............wish I could have made some of them.

BASHES Bill...fishing was secondary to getting together!

Paul

[Mike O]

It wasn't just the format changes. Personally, I got tired of the vitriolic and insulting "thillyness", if you know what I mean. I think some just got tired of the hate. Those who didn't, probably moved over to the Drake BB.

Very clickish site, there. I was on Hat many of the same yearly BASH weekends in June, and didn't attend...for the reasons stated above. That is why I pretty much only participate on this site and FAOL. None of the nastiness.

I miss "Sgt. Diaz" as well. I wish DFG would open a BB or somewhere we could get things clarified without trying to find an office. Many of the contacts online are good at getting back to you, but I have emailed the same clarification question to six people with no answer.

[tdrfishoot]

Here's a link to a weekly email of general interest sent out by DFG. Sometimes the information is interesting... There's a spot toward the top on the right where you can subscribe.

[Ralph]

Here's a link to a weekly email of general interest sent out by DFG. Sometimes the information is interesting... There's a spot toward the top on the right where you can subscribe.

I believe this is the link tdrfishoot meant to include. I look forward to reading the updates. http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/

Kind of along the same note, "California Outdoors" published by Fish and Game is one of the least expensive good magazines you'll ever subscribe to.

[tdrfishoot]

Thanks Ralph.

Here's the link to the most recent one:

http://californiaoutdoors.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/can-boat-captains-tell-passengers-to-take-someone%e2%80%99s-fish-sept-29/

[Fly Guy Dave]

It wasn't just the format changes. Personally, I got tired of the vitriolic and insulting "thillyness", if you know what I mean. I think some just got tired of the hate. Those who didn't, probably moved over to the Drake BB.

Very clickish site, there. I was on Hat many of the same yearly BASH weekends in June, and didn't attend...for the reasons stated above. That is why I pretty much only participate on this site and FAOL. None of the nastiness.

I agree with Mao on this one. I always posted with trepidation there, hoping that I wouldn't say the wrong thing, or give too much information about a so-called "secret spot. Clique-ish? Absolutely! But still, some of 'em of were good guys, and if indeed the board is really gone...well...I'll miss the good posters and the useful info, but not the rest of the personal attacks and extreme politics.

"All things must pass..."

--F.G. Dave

[NCL]

NCCFB was back up this morning.

[Sammy]

NCCFB was back up this morning.

HAHAHA

So much for that obituary. Yeah that board did get down right nasty. I was subject of a few insults based on some stupid beginner questions, but it's easy to be mean when nobody can see your face.

I mostly use this forum now, but on occasion I'll post a report on ncffb. A lot of folks still go there, but end up just lurking.

[Mike O]

I mostly use this forum now, but on occasion I'll post a report on ncffb. A lot of folks still go there, but end up just lurking.


I lurk there occasionally as well.

[JohnS]

The bashes started with 11 of us getting together and at its height had over 130 FFers, wives, GFs (not if the wife was attending), children and dogs. The food and the friendship was great.

IMHO the causes for the demise were
1) there was some posting nastiness. Some of it was meant to be tongue in cheek but some people didn't appreciate the tone

2) deflection of several long time and prominent posters to a private board where they could share info with each other and not share with lurkers who only take info.

3) the new format was a minor reason. Once you used it a bit, you got used to it although it wan't as good as the old format.

4) some negative personal interactions

[NCL]

John,

Your evaluation, in my opinion, is spot on, especially point number four which was openly discussed on the board, which then hastened number two which had started but then really gained momentum.

[Mike O]

Number 3 is one reason I like kienes better. People are willing to share here, if you prove you aren't a lurker...the good stuff comes by PM

[TroutNoDoubt]

IMHO, the decline of NCFFB is due to a lack of leadership by the board owners and monitors. In contrast, Kiene's board is successful because it HAS strong leadership that doesn't put up with any nonsense. Congrats to you Bill! Keep up the good work.

Like JohnS, I think the decline of NCFFB has little to do with the format change. I remember when I was first starting to FF. I posted a newbie question on that board and immediately got flamed to a crisp! So I retreated to lurker status. I think this happens to a lot of folks on that board. There was/is a small group of board bullies on that site that ruined it for everyone. They also use the board for personal communications with their buddies, so a lot of junk messages collect on the board - too many to sort through to find useful info. It ended up not being worth the effort to visit, so I gave up on it. Content is king. If you have good content, by encouraging participation and limiting the BS, people will visit.

[huntindog]

i got in on the tail end of the NCFFB heyday and am glad i got to participate a little bit. In fact I am in the picture that is still up at the top of the page. It is of the last real bash which was a tribute to Hud who was sort of a godfather of NCFFB. Anyway...it did get brutal in there. Who can forget Uncle Jack who was/is the most contankerous old man on the planet. The others were mild compared to him. Anyway..i met some great people there that i still communicate with today...glad i got to be a part...

[aaron]

I hope somebody has the photochopped "thpey casting" book saved somewehere. That whole saga was pure gold jerry!

[BenFishin]

Lots of folks bashing the old NCFFB but lots of good came from the old "board". In the three years that I ran the Watershed Fundraiser, we collectly raised over well over $12,000 that went to local & national conservation groups. Many peole went to free rod building clinics & fly tying seminars and lots of folks learned who to fish from people from the board.

karma killed the board and only good karma will ever bring it back

[oldtrout]

i got in on the tail end of the NCFFB heyday and am glad i got to participate a little bit. In fact I am in the picture that is still up at the top of the page. It is of the last real bash which was a tribute to Hud who was sort of a godfather of NCFFB. Anyway...it did get brutal in there. Who can forget Uncle Jack who was/is the most contankerous old man on the planet. The others were mild compared to him. Anyway..i met some great people there that i still communicate with today...glad i got to be a part...

I met some of the best people I know thru that board. By the way, wasn't it you that posted a picture of my wading staff for the Pit River? Funny stuff that.

[JohnS]

Sgt Diaz was a steward for the rivers of Ca and put up many hilarious posts. Here's one of his posts from way back:

Title: The Yuba river @hwy 20 is CLOSED 2/24/05 3:41 p.m.

With all the rain we have had lately the "H" levels are off the scale. The last measurement showed that it was up to "H7O" so its closed until they come back down to the "H20" level. Another reason I closed it was due to the excessive number of fisherman with barbed hooks in their fly boxes. You cannot be on the river in possession of any barbed hooks.

Sarge

[huntindog]

By the way, wasn't it you that posted a picture of my wading staff for the Pit River? Funny stuff that.

i dont know what your talking about:D:D:D:D:D:roll::---)

[jbird]

Isnt this thread knida like discussing the pros and cons of your mistress in front of your wife?

[Cmcculloch]

Isnt this thread knida like discussing the pros and cons of your mistress in front of your wife?

... only after your mistress is dead....

[EricO]

Hey Huntindog,

I was cracking up that you mentioned Uncle Jack. I was fishing two days ago with a buddy and his name came up in our conversation by the campfire. I remember someone would post a picture of a trout (say a dude named George)...Uncle Jack would post something like: "Squeeze 'em a little tighter George". Cantankerous is right!

I got into it with him a few times and had the most memorable troll where he took it hook, line, sinker, backing, and entire 9' rod. I was capping on one of his favorite creeks that I had NEVER even fished, let alone seen other than pictures.

Ah, the memories.

I did have the pleasure of meeting Hud and developed a nice email friendship with him for several years. What a super person he was. I miss him.

Eric

[Sammy]

Isn't there a 'hud's riffle' memorial on the trinity now?

[briansII]

Isn't there a 'hud's riffle' memorial on the trinity now?

Yes.

briansII

[Charlie S]

Hud WAS a special person and remains so in the hearts of many of us. So do many other great friends I had, and still have from the NCFFB. The board is far from dead, and, although not as active as it used to be, it should revive with reports and information as some start posting a little more often. Too many good things happened there to remember only the bad things. People get trolled, myself included, but that's life and it happens on every board I have ever frequented. But, for the most part it is a site that can provide a lot of good information. Would be nice if more would participate and maybe even come to a bash...they are still on-going with one coming up next June. A good place to meet like minded individuals and get to know them instead of judging them by their "board personna".

[ycflyfisher]

I've got to agree that there seems to be a whole lot of NCFFB bashing going on here by folks that by their own admission really "know" enough to have formed a legit opinion about the people of the NCFFB, but still have no trouble declaring the NCFFB as a whole was an unfriendly place. That isn't an opinion that I share based on my own experiences. I was a long time and frequent poster to that forum and I not only think it was the greatest flyfishing forum ever in its heyday, but it simply was the greatest online community that I've ever been a part of. I also very much disagree with the notion that it's demise wasn't the result of the totally broken software and format change to attempts at organized moderation. The “new” software was and still is totally broken and is IMO without question what led to the demise.

The initial format WAS what initially drew everyone to the NCFFB IMO. It was different than any forum that I've ever read or participated in, prior to or since its demise. There were no subforums or posting rules other than the very loose rule that it was a flyfishing community but that not all the discussion on the board was going to be about flyfishing. The only moderation was carried out by the participants. It was moderated by the community as a whole via peer pressure and not the forum owner and a few select appointed moderators who got to determine what was appropriate for discussion. There's no doubt that some newbies got snubbed when they left detailed reports on destinations that the membership collective had already deemed off limits as a whole, based on what the active members were seeing their own "online dialogue" was doing to angler traffic at those destinations. We're we perfect? Far from it. We're we justified? Certainly not in some cases but I think that's a matter of perspective in others.

The NCFFB was a virtual campfire and that's how the members who participated used the forum and the online discussion there very much reflected the types and natures of the discussions that we had when we all got together: It wasn’t all about flyfishing and there wasn’t always consensus agreement. It literally was an online “campfire” where there were several conversations going on simultaneously and not all were about flyfishing. The common denominator was of course flyfishing and an interest in flyfishing is what initially attracted everyone to NCFFB. The "Board" attracted people from all walks of life, with differing backgrounds, differing opinions and varying perspectives. Naturally, there was more often than not more than a fair share of disagreement. Also naturally, some of that disagreement often got heated. What I think is that most of the outsiders failed to see is that “format” was two-fold and that the various “bashes” (i.e. Fall Bash, Spring Bash, annual river clean ups, Rod bashes etc.) allowed all us who were arguing with each other on a nightly basis to get together several times a year. The real beauty of the forum is that those discussions were allowed to be played out in realtime with passion as they were happening without some self righteous moderator locking the thread down because he felt like someone who was reading or participating in that particular thread was going to get offended. That alone meant that anyone engaging in said discussion got the opportunity to fully make whatever points they felt were valid to said discussion simply because those discussions were allowed to continue until all involved had their full arguments heard. And those that were following along got to hear the complete and continued refutations from both sides. Everyone participating in those discussions realized that everyone else was an adult even when we didn't always act like adults. And yes, there were plenty of times when we collectively refused to act like adults. The NCFFB was comprised of a myriad of personalities and the NCFFB I think served for most of us as an escape from the rigors of everyday life. There was surely never a lack of humor on the NCFFB.

The two individuals I tended to "cross swords" with the most where Skirt and Troutnut (whose brother Shawn was a regular there and is here). I used to debate with Troutnut on damned near every conservation and restoration topic that hit the forum, and I used to debate with Skirt on everything under the sun that related to fishing from what inverts would dominate the biomass of a given locale at certain times of the year, to the whether parleps were more important to the fish subsurface or in the meniscus to what the best way to present Dico patterns to Klamath and Trinity steelhead. To the outsider, I'm sure it looked like there would be blood should we ever meet in person. The fact is we had all met in person several times and there was anything but blood. That was the case with most of the individuals that were frequently in disagreement. Can't say I agreed with Troutnut on much of anything, and disagreed with Skirt on almost as much as I agreed with the man. The bottomline is that when you elected to engage in those discussions you knew you were going to get challenged and by getting challenged you were not only going to be expected to fully support your opinion but by default, you were going to have to rethink the validity of said opinion. Lively debate is what ultimately changes and reshapes opinions. Anyone reading along in the sometimes heated discussions any of the more active members of the NCFFB were regularly having (whether those debates were about fishing or otherwise) who thinks we all weren't considering the opposing opinion and were simply all just arguing for the simple sake of doing so, clearly wasn't paying attention. I've got mad respect for Troutnut even though most of the time we couldn't even tactfully agree to disagree simply because the man wasn't just bitching on some internet forum about how he thought some government entity was screwing up the resource but he was spending more of his own personal time and resources actively pursuing his own conservation efforts in a year than most anglers do in a lifetime.

Didn't always agree with Skirt either, and sure as hell didn't always appreciate the manner in which he elected to disagree with not only myself but damn near everyone else on the forum also. Fact is, I learned more from him than any other angler I ever met bar none. The dude simply wasn't capable of having an epic day without attempting to explain why it was happening and apply it to similar angling situations. I can't count the number of days where I was rolling the proverbial donut and ended up ripping lips because I ended up fishing some weird bottom walking baetis pattern or a drowned tryke pattern or something that mimiced some often overlooked component of the drift that the fish were totally keyed into to the point of ignoring everything else just like Mr. Windbag said was probably happening. The bottomline is that the only vehicle that changes opinion is a well laid out differing opinion. Strong opinions (and we had those in abundance, no doubt) lead to some heated discussions. Those discussions were allowed to happen on the NCFFB without some overly biased or overly sensitive moderator interjecting their own views on what was acceptable.

[ycflyfisher]

In terms of conservation and community service, I think the NCFFB always delivered the goods more so than any flyfishing forum I've ever seen. Whether it was an annual river cleanup or renovating a summer camp for kids with cancer, we always showed up in force. What everyone that elected to sacrifice their own time for a "good cause" ultimately learned that doing the "right thing" was not only rewarding but was also a hell of a lot of fun. What's lost to the outsider is that those of us that were engaging in regular "heated debate" on the forum found common ground and mutual respect while sweating in the sun while picking up trash, or entrenched knee deep in mud fixing a fence or a deck. The way I saw it from my own experiences is that the NCFFB brought people who didn't agree on much of anything (fishing related or otherwise) closer together.


When it came to involvement by the "resource" people they were an active part of the community. There was no waiting for a response from any of these folks on the NCFFB. The Heritage Trout Coordinator and folks like Mike Dean and Loren Everest were actively involved and more than willing to join in on the dialogue even when it was heated and if they didn't have the answers to questions asked, they directed those questions to folks who did and usually had those answers on the forum very promptly. On this forum we've seen folks complain about the time required to hear back on observed disappearing snail biota from a certain fishery, a well respected member of that other forum literally tell the HTC that he hasn't a clue on the EIR process or its potential impacts and simply ignore a Trinity River professional's take on completely unfounded accusations. The NCFFB I think valued the input of these individuals moreso than most forums, and were collectively appreciative that these individuals thought enough of the dialogue that we were engaging in on a daily basis that they not only were monitoring said dialogue, but that they all took the time to show up at our events and literally became part of the community. I don't think anyone would deny that those individuals helped us all infinitely increase our collective knowledge bases in terms of fisheries conservation to levels that I certainly didn't think I'd ever achieve. The first time I actually had a sit down conversation with a fisheries biologist about steelhead, I learned that as an angler I knew next to nothing about the fish I felt most passionately about and what I felt I knew was largely wrong. I definitely felt I not only wanted but actually needed to take the time to learn more about the biology and LH of anadramous fish. Those folks that I corresponded with and for the most part eventually met, have never stopped sacrificing considerable amounts of time to answer all of my endless questions about steelhead and never stopped providing me with copies of admin documents that would better help answer my questions. I think the NCFFB was simply without peer in terms of forums for those of us that wanted to actually take the time to learn about the fish and the knowledge resources with decades of field experience were available to us there.


When it came to the "people helping people" aspect of the forum, the NCFFB was also without equal IMO and anyone that took the time to actually participate in and become part of that community knows how true that is. I'll stick to my own experiences about being on the receiving end of the generosity of other NCFFB'ers. The first "I can't believe he did that!", event I experienced on the NCFFB happened immediately after I left a post entitled "Two Broken Rods and a Reality Check" where I told the story about how I broke a rod landing the first steelhead of that season that I got to take a dry fly when I let the fish fish swim between my legs and literally broke the rod landing the fish. My dad whom I was fishing with left my other rod that he was using leaning against the truck with the door open as we were about to call it a day when I hooked the fish. The wind blew the door closed on the second rod. The "Reality Check" portion came when I realized just how old and frail dad was looking and I wondered just how many more trips we would be able to make together. A member of the NCFFB who has already posted in this thread sent me an email offering to send two of his rods so that I wouldn't miss an opportunity to take a trip with pops for a lack of fishing rods. I'd never met the man before and he didn't know me from Adam. How many people do you think would pony up two rods to a total stranger? On most forums I'm betting none. On the NCFFB there were two individuals who made that offer to me.

A few years later, I had ordered a custom rod over the net. It was delivered to my doorstep. I didn't opt for the insurance and one of the neighbor's kids got home before I did and I was out the total cost of the rod. Another NCFFB'er that I'd met with and fished with a total of one time heard about that from someone who was a mutual friend. He called me up and told me not to buy a replacement. I knew he built rods and was under the impression that he was going to build me a rod at a reduced price. He built me a custom high end rod and ended up literally refusing to let me even pay for the materials.

In 2004 I pondered a career change on the forum and simply asked the question about what skills someone with a CE degree should be brushing up on if they'd done nothing engineering related since graduating 11 years earlier. Folks saw the solid advice I got in the dozen or so responses that were posted to the forum. What they didn't see was the 10+ email responses that I got with requests to send send a resume, to links to job postings and even offers to teach me some familiarity with ACAD and other CE software that I wasn't familiar with. It's nuts to think that simply posting on a fishing forum would lead to a foothold on an opportunity for a new career path. The reality is that is exactly how it played out for me. Most of these folks who provided me with this much needed assistance never posted word one, and simply lurked the forum. Another one of those folks that offered me assistance in this regard has also posted in this thread. They may have forgotten. I doubt I ever will.

The solutions offered in assistance by the NCFFB to my rather mundane dilemmas of broken and stolen rods and an equally mundane career change, pale in comparison to the support given to those who participated in the forum who had legit life changing experiences. No one ever asked for the support they received. No one ever had to ask. None of it was ever discussed openly on the forum.

There was lots of blame placing on what was the cause of the NCFFB's demise when it crashed into the totally dead forum it is now with lots of bad blood between all involved that were slinging blame. There's also I think almost total consensus amongst all that were ever part of the NCFFB that if someone were to ever start a forum with actual functioning software, no format rules, no moderators, no spamming by people exploiting the sport for profit, where the knockdown, drag out the carcasses discussions were allowed to again run their respective courses to conclusion, no one would be suprised if most returned. I've also got little doubt it probably would once again appear to the casual observer that we treat each other like enemies online, but when it really counted we'd all pull together and become one big, happy, albeit somewhat disfunctional family.

I think the goals of anyone that participates in any flyfishing forum involves three elements:
1- They want to become more proficient anglers.
2- They want to become more educated about fisheries science and conservation.
3- They want to make some friends.

Did my participation in the NCFFB make me an infinitely more proficient angler and instill a sense of responsibility to educate myself on all aspects of fisheries conservation than I would have achieved on my own? Not just yes, but hell yes on both accounts. Infinitely more so than I ever imagined or expected when I initially joined the conversation. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that participated in the NCFFB that would tell you the NCFFB failed them in those three areas. I think the notion that the NCFFB was an "unfriendly" place is pretty far from the truth.

[Ralph]

I left NCFFB, NOT because of clunky software (though it was awful), but because it simply became irrelevant. At a time when boards like Bill's and Dan's were growing at warp speed and running full throttle with interesting and germane content, NCFFB was imploding into a whirlwind of hot air and meaningless gibberish. There were interesting and useful threads but you had to wade through endless chaff to find the wheat. My time is more valuable than that.

Bill could open up a subsection where anyone can say anything about anything or anyone without fear of moderation. Screeds and manifestos would be welcome. It would be a facsimile of the NCFFB with great software. He could call it dogpile, cage fight, or chest pounder. Be a fun experiment!

[aaron]

Bill could open up a subsection where anyone can say anything about anything or anyone without fear of moderation. Screeds and manifestos would be welcome. It would be a facsimile of the NCFFB with great software. He could call it dogpile, cage fight, or chest pounder. Be a fun experiment!

Please Ralph my pm box is busy enough and we get enough phone calls in regards to people not playing nice as it is ;)

[pmh]

to ycflyfisher -

You hit it on the nail head.

Paul.

[Jed Peters]

Please Ralph my pm box is busy enough and we get enough phone calls in regards to people not playing nice as it is ;)

Just forward their PM's to me.

I'll make sure to have a "chat" with them.

[aaron]

Just forward their PM's to me.

I'll make sure to have a "chat" with them.
pm rontele

oh lawd could our newest member be the slofly?

[SloFly]

Hello all you thilly thavages out there. I couldn't help but interject into this discussion.

The NCFFB was one heck of a ride - we had a ball. What killed it? It was the combination of the POS new board software and a bunch of whining crybabies that needed to be in control of the content. They wore GM down to a nub with their constant complaining about posts that "they" didn't feel were appropriate. Well, they got their wish. They censored the board right out of existence. Shoot, they censored poor GM out of existence. Of those jerkwads, I can only think of one that ever participated in our "Bash" events. The rest were lurkers. Once they ran those of us who actually kept the board running off to better riffles, there wasn't anyone left to organize the raffles, get hats made, put on rod building clinics, etc.... All that is left now is chirping crickets.

What most people don't understand is that we, for the most part, knew each other from meeting in person at our different "BASH" events. A lot of the flaming was done in jest - not all, but a good percentage. The kind of banter you hear when friends get together. Well, guy friends that is. You never hear gals thrashing each other's family lineage.

Those not part of the "good percentage" usually came in looking for a thrashing and usually got it. They were usually the ones that took everything personally and felt that they "HAD" to read something if it was posted.

Skirt for example - he ruffled a lot of feathers. Nobody was forced to read his posts. If you don't like it don't read it! I guess that was too simple for those rocket scientists. As I think back, I can't remember anyone that actually participated in a bash, mini-bash, rod bash, etc... getting the "Don't let the keyboard hit you on the way out" line.

I made a lot of good friends and learned a lot about this sport from the NCFFB. It was the precursor to today's social media frenzy. I don't think the board would be as successful in today's media overload. It had its time and place. Sure glad it was there!

Slo
People came, people left. No board was no different than life itself.

[briansII]

It's all your fault.

briansII

[mr. 3 wt.]

YCF is spot on. It was a lot of fun until the moderators f---ed things up. Those who couldn't hang are a little thin skinned. There might have even been a spin off board or two too.

[lee s.]

It sure was (is) a tough job being Eyetalian! Hey Slo?!

[Charlie S]

So many of you are writing as if the Other Board is Dead. Wrong!!! Some fishing reports are being posted, friends are continuing conversations and meetings. All are invited. So far there hasn't been much flaming but, then again, those perpetual whiners that seemed to be present before are absent by their lack of participation. The NCFFB will continue, at least for a while. I will continue to post reports, information about flies, rods, etc. Expect others will also carry the ball. If not, well, so be it. I hear a lot of negativism but I have to ask myself if a lot of the verbosity isn't just people patting themselves on the back to make themselves feel good.

[SloFly]

Ya know UC - if sex with 3 people is a threesome and sex with 2 is a twosome, I now know why they call you handsome.......:evil::evil::evil:

How's that for a positive spin???

You are absolutely correct sir - the NCFFB is not dead. Our association was not the board, it is the friendship that we all share from that board. The board won't be dead until we're all on the other side of the grass.

I read some mention of our partner Hud a few posts back. I think about Hud just about every day. That man was a class act and will never be replaced. For those of you that didn't know Hud - here is something he wrote tongue in cheek a few years back:

************************************************** ********
Originally Posted: Friday June 30th, 2000

OK, now you guys gotta remember that I have no idea about tying flies. I didn't know what dubbing was. Ribbing??? What is hackle? I thought peacock was used for a uniform for go-go dancers. You mean I gotta tie knots? Ok as long as it is a triple surgeon. I honestly though our friend "Duke of Hurl" was so named cause he could throw up on command. I am green!!!

Now I got this book a few days ago. The thing that impressed me about this book is that it had a chapter on bodies, a chapter on tails, wings, dubbing hackle ribbing and all that stuff. When it came time to tie a fly, they didn't just say "OK add some muskrat dubbing". They had already told me what it was and how to do it. All you had to do was refer back. I read this book in the mid day and evenings (when I shoulda been fishin a caddis hatch…rookie) so I figure I got it covered. I'm gonna tie a fly. Since I had pretty good luck on an Adams (and the book choose this pattern to tie) I was gonna make an ADAMS. I will kick tail.

OK outside where the light is good, got my glasses on, got the stuff that a friend gave me, got the brown and grizzly hackle and dubbing I bought, I am ready. Maybe just 1 Jim Beam and Coke to settle my hands.

Chapter one, put the hook in the vise… Got it done. 1 sip of Beam. Start thread, apply equal pressure and wind thread over the top and towards the eye… BOING Where'd the hook go. I applied equal pressure so it must have gone either straight up or straight down. 1 sip of Beam. There it is. How could it land in there. Oh well it will sink and I will get it out after I finish this drink. Get another hook. Who cares I got 98 of those babies left.

Got the hook in the vise and the thread started forward and back, trimmed excess, this ain't so hard. Equal "easy" pressure. I got this. Tie on 2 hackle point wings as shown on page 64. The wind had blown my book to the glossery while I was looking for that danged first hook. Page 64 …OK wrap here, figure 8 and wrap here. I got that. A sip of Beam. How is this bug gonna fly with one wing going to the front and the other to the right??? Big deal. The wings are out of the water anyway. Fish don't care. Just twist them a little. There perfect. A sip of Beam.

Tail??? That chapter never said that I had to hold grizzly and brown hackle at the same time and tie on separate sides of the hook. Remove some of the hackle from each color. The dad-gum brown hackle doesn't have long enough sections to make a tail. Oh well the grizzly does. It looks cooler anyway. Tail is on. Sip of Beam.

OK this dubbing looks easy. Wait, nobody ever said anything about wax. I gotta have wax? I ain't quittin now, where is the Vaseline?? There dubbing on, even twisted it all the same way . Wind it forward almost to where the wings are. Wait the thread is forward of the wings. How did it get there. Musta been the wind. OK there wind on the dubbing. Perfect. Sip of Beam.

Alright, all I gotta do is put on the hackle. Book says to get the correct length of hackle from each color. CORRECT LENGTH??? Yea right. THERE, THAT LOOKS RIGHT. Take that, NO FEAR. A BIG SIP OF BEAM. Strip off some at the bottom (I'm lovin that instruction) and tie facing back at a 30 degree angle. Yeah right. Me and Beam really know what a 30 degree angle is. That looks 30 degrees. Hurry and tie it before you change your mind. Perfect!!! Wrap the brown hackle 3 times behind and 3 times in front of the wings. That shouldn't be so tough. OOOPPPSS. That wing wasn't layin down a minute ago. A sip of Beam. Man this thing is lookin good. Tie it off (what a knot Beam and I made) and add cement. CEMENT no chapter ever said anything about cement. I gotta have some super glue here somewhere. I get up from my chair… WWOOOOOAAAA, I musta had more Beam than I thought. Here is some Super glue. A drop here… perfect. A sip of Beam and take it out of the vise.

ADAMS huh. Yeah right. Finish my Beam. UH OH where is that hook.

My wife hollars out side, Hud have you seen the glue from my finger nail kit. Not now woman, I gotta tie another of these Adams. Right after I make me one more Beam and coke!!!!!!!!!!!

Hud
************************************************** ********

Hope this brings back some good memories of Steve from those of you lucky enough to have made his acquaintence.

Thlo

[oldtrout]

Sure good to see William Lightkeeper posting again!

[mr. 3 wt.]

Brings back good memories Thlo! Duh-hur!

[Sammy]

I still post my vids/reports on ncffb.

also slo sucks

[SloFly]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/Milehimbr/Thpey.jpg

[pgw]

Ah SLO,
I don't miss the Thilly Savage who always reported "preety" good fishing who left the other board for Krispy Kreem Heaven.

Paul

[Ed Wahl]

Okay, now we have the real reason so many Kiene's board members are actually refugee's from the old NCFFB.
Apologees to Aaron, but I'm gonna say that that particular hounding was far above anything that I would consider honorable. And the rest of the members who glommed on to it to me were just 'toadies' to a bully.

Sure, dude was a pain. That would be handled here by our moderators with regards to the feelings of the other members and a sense of decency that isn't found on many on line forums.

I know his history there very well and I admit he was a sore. But allowing that constant hounding pushed me and quite a few others off that board and onto a more civil and refined board, this one.

Sully was just one manifestation of a group mentality gone bad. Sadly it was a minority who degraded the tone of that board for many.

Slo, it was you directly who lowered the level of discourse over there.
You're bullying was incessant.
What you posted sure got you laughs from your toadies but were lame no class attempts at humor at the expense of another. Picking on someone non-stop just gets old.

You claim it to have been a campfire, but surley you wouldn't poke fun at someone's weight, looks, or intellect around a fire for the entertainment of your fans until your victim left.

Would you?

Care to explain your last post?

Take off the rose colored glasses people and get real. That board turned mean and nasty when a few blowhards completely took it over. One of the reasons why this board and Blanton's are doing so well is the enforced civility.

I was gone before the format change came about and so were the other members that came here around then. It was the tone, just the tone that turned us off.

Ed Wahl

[Charlie S]

"I know his history there very well and I admit he was a sore. But allowing that constant hounding pushed me and quite a few others off that board and onto a more civil and refined board, this one."

To have posted that one paragraph really shows that you did NOT know Sullivan. He bullied, degraded, was abusive and profane with a very nice and polite woman on the NCFFB. I believe that was the root of the manifestation of abuse he received in return. He never apologized, never made any amends, and also, even when invited to join a group gathering in a polite and mannerly way in an effort to let him try to really get to know the people on the NCFFB, he responded only with threats of physical violence, written profanity, and nonsense.

So, please, before you label some with names, know of what you speak.

[Ed Wahl]

I know the story and watched it unfold with all the rest of you.

Messing with Dawn should have sealed his posting there forever.

He should have just 'disappeared' from the board. The incessant hounding just lowered you all to his level.

Ed

[oldtrout]

Ed,

Your post sounds so reasonable; but I found that board in1996 or 1997 (when it was ASCII looking), and I can say without hesitation that your opinion of the NCFFB posters would be much more complimentary (and much more accurate) had you attended an early Bash and got to know these guys and gals. I think you would have fit in perfectly.

That being said, my wife read that "other" board a few times and came away with the same opinion as you have - reasonable sounding, yet lacking too much information to be accurate.

Anyone ignorant of that community, any outsiders, would only see the meaness in some of the posts, when, in fact, that meaness was, for the most part, jest. I will admit that some of the posts would seem down right nasty if one did not know any better and some were just straight up nasty; however, most of the issues were with folks who took themselves too seriously.

Boy oh boy, there were some great "characters" posting way back when. Hilarious!

I guess what I'm trying to convey to you is "you had to be there."
If you had been you would know that the old NCFFB was the best thing going for a long long time. My life is much richer for having been there.

PS
I do not post on the Drake board, but I bet many would find that board mean-spirited. I'm certain it is not as it seems.

[Reno Flytyer]

It wasn't Dawn either.
RFT

[Darian]

Before this thread descends into any further depths, it's time for it to go.... :roll:

[ycflyfisher]

First of all, to all the names who have appeared in this thread that are very familiar to me I hope you all and your families are doing well and you haven't found yourself victims of this lousy economy. You all still rock! Whenever I post something on this forum I'm usually made to regret it by the peanut gallery here but this one made me grin like a banshee. I hadn't thought about the NCFFB in a long, long time. Reading this one from beginning to end again brings back a flood of memories. Next to no bad memories and all the good ones are pretty damned epic. It also makes me kinda sad because thinking about all those good memories makes me realize how much I miss that place, and most importantly, the daily interaction with the people who made that place special.

Secondly: Respectfully Ed you're not remotely seeing the whole picture. Sully wasn't just an annoying internet cancer with an axe to grind. He was a mentally unstable sociopath. You don't have any idea how many of us Sully impersonated on other forums complete with our names and actual email addresses. While impersonating us, Sully was flaming others whom he had it in for. You've got no idea how many emails some of us got in response to gear we supposedly had for sale from posts that Sully left on internet forums all over the nation. You have no idea what was in the Sully hate mail most of us received. The dude was wrong in the head.

Lastly: UC that has got to be the LAMEST presentation I've ever seen. A starving one eyed brookie could see the massive hook in what you're dangling from a mile away. Nice try there Cupcake!

[Mike O]

Before this thread descends into any further depths, it's time for it to go.... :roll:

Darian...I just gotta say....

+1 to your post

[shawn kempkes]

I just have one question,Which occupy protest do you think Skirt is at? lol

[NCL]

Ed,

I have to agree with what has been said in regards to the message sent to the aforementioned female. I read that message and if it would have been a telephone call it would have been criminal,it was filled with obsenity. The person in question researched the message back to the writer even though he had tried to hide his identity.

My memory of the decline in participation seems to be somewhat different, although I am sure with the number of people that particpated on the board the reasons were many and varied.

[Charlie S]

Lastly: UC that has got to be the LAMEST presentation I've ever seen. A starving one eyed brookie could see the massive hook in what you're dangling from a mile away. Nice try there Cupcake!

Bottom Line...did I, or did I not get bit???? But, that wasn't my intent. My point was that the NCFFB is a long ways from dead. It will only die if we let it. There are still a LOT of people there with information, advice, and just plain fun. Participation is required. I'm old and getting worn out, but I'm still out there fishing and posting. That's all it takes. Not asking for "secret" spots, chances are that over the past 60 or so years I have fished ALL those places in California and most of Oregon. There will be June gatherings. If they're called Bashes or whatever, it will still be a place to rekindle friendships, meet new friends, and have an enjoyable time. If one weekend a year, where you still get to go fishing, but the main intent is to get face to face with board identities, is too much wasted time, then you shouldn't even read the NCFFB. Nuff said.

[Scott V]

How about them 49'ers, 6 and 1 start. It would be nice to see them go all the way, but not as much as it would be to see the Bronco's beat the Raiders this weekend!!!


GO DENVER!!!!!!:mrgreen:

[BillB]

That gives them the opportunity to go 0-9!

[ProudPapa]

Individuals have their own; but the personality of a group is defined by the actions, over time, that the group deems acceptable.

This thread shows off a lot of different individuals' personalities - many of whom I've enjoyed reading and learning from for more than a decade.

As with this board, the "Other Board", and many other boards, the diversity of personalities fuels insightful conversations, polite disagreements, well-argued debates and, unfortunately, sometimes a hotbed of mean-spiritedness.

My opinion (which is likely worth less than the electrons it takes to display it) is if the only items posted are fishing reports, the board has a one-dimensional personality and isn't all that interesting. If the only items posted are mean/angry/personal manifestos of off-fishing topics, the board has a one-dimensional personality and isn't all that interesting.

For me personally, for many, many years the NCFFB was a near-perfect blend of incredible fly fishing knowledge and incredibly entertaining random discourse. I didn't post often, never joined a Bash, and didn't introduce myself in person to more than a few board members -- but it was still a wonderful campfire, where it was my privilege to sit around and listen.

The sheer number of folks chiming in on this thread - on this forum - bears witness that the spirit of the NCFFB is still alive, perhaps with a bit of wanderlust...

PP

[SloFly]

Ed Wahl - you have no idea what you are talking about. Ycflyfisher put it about a clearly as it could be said. Like the quote in someones signature (aaron???) said - you have removed all doubt. It was those like you that sat on the sidelines and pretended that they part of the NCFFB who ruined that board. Didn't have the cajonies to just become part of the community - it was easier for you to snipe from the sidelines. I was on that board a long time - don't ever remember you participating there unless you were that whining bigTJ. Butt out and go fishing - "you can't handle the truth".

End of thread!

Slo

[aaron]

Lol @ this thread, I'll let it go as long as it stays in this thread and doesn't spread. For those of you unaware there's an ignore option if you click on the user, then lists, so you don't have to read their posts...

[Sammy]

Wow I really opened a can of worms with this one. NCFFB would have LOVED this thread.

End of thread

[pgw]

Lol @ this thread, I'll let it go as long as it stays in this thread and doesn't spread. For those of you unaware there's an ignore option if you click on the user, then lists, so you don't have to read their posts...

Unfortunately, the ignore function doesn't apply to certain users...like moderators...I tried.

Paul

[aaron]

...you can't ignore myself or bill?

[pmh]

that's ok Paul...

Some folks need a button to push

:rolleyes:

The other, better looking, Paul

[jbird]

Funny how this topic has risen some lurkers from the dead. trying to resurect something that used to be?? If your other forum is still there, why dont you go back there and stop stinkin up this one? Usually when you get a number of people observing the same thing about something, theres some merrit to it. I dont know this other board, Ive never been to it. But a LOT of posters here over the years have helped me form my opinon about it. At this point, those of you defending it were either the antagonists or the cowards cheering them on.

Ive known Ed Wahl here for several years. He is a class act without exception. Anyone pointing out otherwise is a lowlife troller that needs to go back to the 'other place'

[SloFly]

My last post was a little insensitive. Ed - my apologies!!! For relief, please submit this is triplicate:

Your pal Slo

http://www.ncffb.org/joomla_1.0.12/images/fbfiles/images/SoreButt.jpg

[oldtrout]

Funny how this topic has risen some lurkers from the dead. trying to resurect something that used to be?? If your other forum is still there, why dont you go back there and stop stinkin up this one? Usually when you get a number of people observing the same thing about something, theres some merrit to it. I dont know this other board, Ive never been to it. But a LOT of posters here over the years have helped me form my opinon about it. At this point, those of you defending it were either the antagonists or the cowards cheering them on.

Ive known Ed Wahl here for several years. He is a class act without exception. Anyone pointing out otherwise is a lowlife troller that needs to go back to the 'other place'

??????
Antagonists, cowards, low-life trollers? I am none of those things my friend.

Of what worth is such criticism coming from someone who admits his opinion was formed by heresay?

[jbird]

??????
Antagonists, cowards, low-life trollers? I am none of those things my friend.

Of what worth is such criticism coming from someone who admits his opinion was formed by heresay?

Are you suggesting you have no opinions formed by hearsay?? Chew on that for a minute.

im just sticking up for my friend.

[aaron]

yikes, way to go guys. don't mind all the nccffbers here and honestly I don't mind the banter, but if it's going to distract and take away from the info and value here we'll put our foot down. end thread (for reals)

[oldtrout]

Sticking up for a friend is good. Calling me a low-life antagonist coward, not so good.

As for my opinions, those formed solely on heresay may, on ocassion, be correct, but are always ignorant.